From hospital to Hollywood: Adam Pearson on finding the confidence to be unashamedly yourself

Transcript

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The Imposter Club is produced by talented people, staffing and headhunting company in TV production with a mission to make the industry a happier, more creatively diverse place.

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Coming up.

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Is this the day, is this the gig where everyone realizes I've been faking it the whole time and it all comes crashing down?

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This is The Imposter Club, the podcast uniting all us tv, film, and content folk secretly stressing that everyone else has its sorted.

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Except us.

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I'm Kimberly Gobolt, TV director Turns staff and company founder.

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And each episode I want you to hear the real story of a successful industry figure.

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Not the glossy announcements we usually see, but the truth of their career journey, including the bumpy bits to help you make sense of your own health warning.

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This podcast may incur whiplash from violent nodding plus an unfamiliar, but hopefully welcome feeling of belonging,

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A massive imposter club.

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Welcome to Adam Pearson, who is an award-winning disability rights campaigner, actor, presenter, and speaker.

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Adam also worked behind the scenes in various creative roles in the TV industry.

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When, where we first met back in around 2012, I think it was, um, we were in the same production office when he cast and researched on countless series of channel four's, the undateable before turning onscreen presenter on consumer series like tricks of the restaurant trade and onscreen for more personal journeys like Adam Pearson Freak show, the Ugly Face of Disability, hate crime, and the highbrow �Horizon:

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My amazing twin�, and I mean as if that wasn't enough, in 2013, he was cast alongside none other than Scarlett Johanssen in the BAFTA nominated film Under the Skin, saying he hoped the role would change disfigurement stigma.

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And I actually remember you asking me to guess which Hot A-lister you were going to be acting with Adam on the stairwell at Betty <laugh>.

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Oh, yes.

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Yeah, that back in the day, that was like, I think that was 2011.

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We, we we did that movie.

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Oh, we certainly recorded it in 2011.

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Yeah.

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You were so excited.

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Yeah.

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But I don't know if you, you were living or not.

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I broke my legs on the way to the final audition.

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No, I didn't know that.

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Yeah,

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I got hit by a black cab outside the office.

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Oh.

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And so obviously you still got the part with limping.

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Yeah,

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I, uh, the director came and saw me the next day and you see Yeah, while I was waiting for surgery on my leg, I've got like a pins and screws in it now.

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Oh my life.

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So did you have to do a kind of a read through from your hospital bed?

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Yeah.

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<laugh>.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That unreal.

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It was a weird one.

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<laugh>.

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Now you've also been, because the list kiss keeps going on.

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Celebrity master Chef.

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We probably don't talk about where you came.

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Just, I mean, I, I went out quickly, uh,

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Bish Bash B out with a bang.

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I went in, I left the cab running when I did the thing, and it got straight back in and, and came

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Home.

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You were just saving the production costs, I would think, weren't you?

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Exactly.

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Yeah, exactly.

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I'm, I'm nothing efficient.

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So I hear you binge listened the Imposter Club series one.

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Uh, I mean, did it I did.

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Did it give you kind of food for thought about your own relationship with imposter syndrome?

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Well, it's something I, I think about a lot anyway.

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I think as, I think it happens a lot with, um, particularly with disability.

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I, I, I find myself doing something or whenever I have something come out either on the telly or, or in, in the field world, I find myself having to just liable reason for being there more than non disabled counterparts would.

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But also I, I think imposter syndrome in, in moderation of course, perfectly fine and healthy.

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I think the only people who don't get imposter syndrome are imposters.

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Interesting.

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So if you get it, it means you're legit.

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You're either legitimately good at what you do or you're a a, a liar cheat and a swindler <laugh>.

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And I don't think there's anything in, in between.

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I think you can steal somewhere in between.

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I think those feelings are legitimate.

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Well, I think the actual facts of the matter are, are that clear cut?

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Cool.

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Well, let's dig into some of that and how it might have manifested itself across the course of your life and your career.

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So as a child, did you, did you always want to be on camera?

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In, in, in a way I was naturally good at it.

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I was always quite chatty, quite charismatic and, and a little bit out there.

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I was always a, a wild child though.

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I, I first fell in love with, with the media.

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I think I was eight years old and a, a friend of my father's took us to the BBC to go and watch live and kicking, being done live at, uh, TV Century seven foot, uh, long may it rest in peace.

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Yes.

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And the, the whole thing just fascinated me.

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Just the, the, the, the energy in the room, how fast paced everything was.

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Everyone seemed to, to like their job.

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And, and I think there's really a lot to be said for liking your job.

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So I was just like, yeah, this is, this is where I want to try and get to when I'm a grown up.

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So you thought this is cool.

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I like the idea of working in tv.

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How did you make that happen?

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Deliberately avoided any kind of media academia, because I read an interview with Janet Sweet Porter who said she'd never hire a media graduate 'cause they're all fucking useless goes, well, Well's not mine.

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Don't, don't confirm me.

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It's hearing it <laugh>.

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So I got in on the B B C, what was then the B b C extend scheme where they recruit solely, uh, disabled candidate.

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And the original job I went for was to work at six, what was then six music.

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Yeah.

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And I, I came second and you get the, you know, when you don't get a job, you get that email saying, we really like to keep the name on record, yada yada yada.

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Notice like eye rolling, cut and paste numbers.

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Yeah.

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And then I got a phone call two days later saying they had a job come up in commissioning management and was I, was I interested?

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Was I interested?

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And I went, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Then came, they'd send me the form, I'd fill it in and I'd never happened to them.

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And they just said, great, you're, you're interviews is tomorrow.

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Wow.

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So yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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So and so I had a day to prepare for a, uh, an interview.

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Um, and there was a cube strike that day as well.

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So even getting in there was a little bit of a scramble You should, but Yeah.

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Made it nailed.

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It had, so that was like a six month contract on what the, the power floor of television center.

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So all the channel heads and genre heads were like on the same corridor.

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And I had a very frank chat with my line manager, Mary Kirkpatrick, who I owe a great deal to saying, Hey, I'm planning to email everyone and get coffee with them that cool with you?

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Is that gonna negatively affect you in any way?

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And she was like, no, go for it.

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So I think within the first month I'd had coffee with, uh, Mark Lindsay, Simon Wilson, Lucy den, Jane Bennett, Jay Hunt I think I had coffee with.

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And then they all, then I came into work.

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How, how I went up at Betty after that was, I, I came into work one day and I was like a bit late and wicked hungover and I was wearing a marble superhero t-shirt.

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'cause that was the first thing I touched in my rush to get out the house.

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And I had a random chat with a really little bloke in a lick, the old elevator pitch, no idea who he was.

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Um, turns out Danny Cohen.

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Right.

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Great.

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Who

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Then sent me to introduce me to Liz Warner at Betty.

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I had to go and I, I got two weeks work experience there.

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I had to do two interviews and then that two weeks became a once and two once that then became a junior research role.

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And then I just found on screen.

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Yeah.

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So that, that feels like, um, that's like networking 1 0 1 from my point of view.

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Because you, you got that placement through a scheme, which you, you know, you applied for, got on your merit, but also used to your advantage, right?

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Yeah.

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I I I'm a, I'm a fairer scheme to the extent that you've gotta play the game without them, I might not have the career I have.

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Right.

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But the, the issue or the I often take with schemes as well is what happens after that.

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Yeah.

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Right.

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It is just like revolving door.

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And I think we're very good at putting, let, let's use disability as an example.

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'cause that's, that's what I know.

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We're really good at putting disabled people in jobs.

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I think we're appalling at putting disabled talent in careers and there's a real difference.

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Yeah.

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What happens after the scheme where Wesley progressing?

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Yes.

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It doesn't feel genuine and it's not gonna be sustainable for a career.

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No, I I hear you on that one.

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So you were researching on Undateables.

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How did, yeah.

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Tell me about, how did you go from offscreen to onscreen?

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Can you remember like a conversation where that happened?

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So I was in development and we, we discussed an idea that was similar to super size versus super skinny, but looking at beauty obsession and disfigurement that then went on to become beauty naty ugly face of prejudice.

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And so we, we developed it, we film like a, a pilot for it or like a, yeah, a Sizzler if you will.

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And I was in, in a Sizzler.

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And then we had this idea of like a strand going through it where I, I do, I sort like a, a, a journalist.

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And then that just sort of happened and became a thing.

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Mm-hmm.

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So you kind of created that opportunity.

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Well were you the one who went?

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I could present that.

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Yeah.

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Well,

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Let's talk about how you feel as someone who has a, a physical disability being on camera.

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Right?

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Has that ever been a hangup for you or has it been fuel for the reason for you to want to do it?

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Uh, I think it's more of the, the fuel to do it.

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I, I, I don't, I don't see the logic in getting hung up about it.

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And you know, there the only people there that go, oh, he is only there 'cause he is disabled, you, yada, yada yada.

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And it's just, it's like, or, or here's more alternate reality.

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Alright, I'm here 'cause I worked hard and I'm good at my job.

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And also people have to like you in this industry.

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And I think, no, it's the thing that everyone tends to, to get amongst the, the competitiveness of it and, and the drive to work your way out the ladder that you, you've still gotta be a good bloke and people still need something like you and want to work with you.

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Yeah.

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And, and you, you can, I i, I always say, and if this is a quote that I, I still can read, the comedian Jim Ridge, is you can boil any religious doctrine down to four simple words.

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Don't be a dick <laugh>.

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Well, yes, I would like to live by that, um, that motto as well.

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And it seems to have worked for you, right, <laugh>?

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Well, I, i, I have like ness to me.

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I've got an age to me.

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But look, when, when you're at work, you're at work, right.

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You know, be, be nice to people and treat people how you want to be treated because you're not there who you're gonna be on the way up or on the way down.

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Yeah.

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But I, I have to say though, Adam, like I'm really humbled by you saying that because I know and from your personal films as well as you a bit personally that you experience prejudice probably most days because of the way that you look.

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So how, how have you turned that into just be kind to everyone?

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You could have had a very different take on life.

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Yeah.

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But you, you, you just crack on with it, don't you?

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And I, I've always had the, the attitude that the people that matter don't mind and the people that mind don't matter.

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And you, you put your head down and you, you, you rock up, you do your job and you, you make a difference.

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And I, I've never been one to give the opinions of strangers any, any kind of acquaintance.

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I, I I have zero x about what funky 38 on Twitter thinks about me.

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But does it, does it have a personal cost though, Adam?

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Do it talking so openly about yourself over and over again and campaigning for disability rights?

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Oh, does it have a personal cost?

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I think that there's, there's a sort of, whatever you, you wear one's heart on, on one's sleeve.

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There's, there's a certain level of exhaustion that comes with, um, vulnerability.

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And, and once people knows you and know your story and know you well, there's, there's no going back.

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Right.

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You can't, you can't put the genie back in the bottle or honoring or honoring Lavelle.

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So whenever you do, go on Italian and do a documentary, uh, and expose yourself emotionally or do a film and expose yourself physically, once it's out there, it's out there and you can't, you can't then on undo it.

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But then, like, like I say it, if it helps make the world better fairer, then I think it's a really good trade off.

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Yeah.

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What I don't think I've ever asked you actually, and what I don't think people kind of want to, but I, I like to get, oh God, this is a bit of a pun under the skin, haha.

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Of a real film Ray of, um, our guests on a different level on this podcast is what does it, what are the physical effects of your disability on you?

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Like give me an example of what you feel and go through every day in terms of comfort, I mean physically as well as emotionally.

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Yeah.

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So I'm, I'm the, the condition I have is, is surprisingly common.

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People think it it rare and, and technically it is, but only just, so the, the benchmarks for rare is one in 2000 and NF one, what I have is one in 2,300 though, like, like most things, it has a spectrum.

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And I am very much the spinal tap of, of NF one.

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I've can, I've turned that sit up to 11.

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Um, I'm, I'm fortunate or I'm not in any physical pain.

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I, I'm quite partially sighted, but I, I'm, that, that's the only thing I I, I had to go to a lot of doctor's appointments and have a lot of surgeries and those are just to me by divine now.

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I think once you've been around the old, the medical world for as long as I have, it just all becomes second nature and, and just a, a part of the day to day.

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Don't go anywhere.

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How many more these panels are you gonna make me do before you listen to what I say and, and crack on

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This is the Imposter club and I'm talking to Adam Pearson.

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When you leave the house, go to Sainsbury's, go, um, to the, you know, whatever, meet your friends.

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What, you know, what, what's a sort of regular occurrence?

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Because you look very different.

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Yeah, I, I don't know.

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'cause I sort of shoot it out.

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I don't really, again, I don't pay attention to great grandkid.

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Like I, I, I go out to like meet my mates and hang out with people I like.

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And I don't look around at what people I don't know are doing or, or what they think of me.

224

00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:17,740

If people want to know, they can come and ask me and I'll, I'll willingly have, have a chat with them.

225

00:17:17,858 --> 00:17:19,700

I, I've got, I've got no problem there.

226

00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:30,020

Um, but no, it, it, it mainly all, all of the, uh, the, i I guess bullshit for one better terminology happens online.

227

00:17:31,570 --> 00:17:36,940

Like back in, back in the day, the good old days, if you wanted to be a dick to someone, you'd have to find them.

228

00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:42,220

You look dead in the face and say it and then you'd watch their soul die behind their eyes.

229

00:17:42,220 --> 00:17:42,500

Yeah.

230

00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,540

And we'd feel this good old fashioned emotion called guilt or remorse.

231

00:17:47,140 --> 00:17:51,040

Whereas now I used to just write it and send it and feel all powerful.

232

00:17:51,230 --> 00:17:51,520

Yeah.

233

00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:57,200

Unless Adam Pearson gets back and, uh, uses one of his legendary comebacks to you online Oh,

234

00:17:57,390 --> 00:18:00,880

Adam Pearson Kdo is, is still alive and well.

235

00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:06,240

<laugh>,

236

00:18:01,460 --> 00:18:03,360

You've got such a good sense of humor though.

237

00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,160

I mean, does that give you a sense?

238

00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:08,800

Oh, why, why do you, why do you reply to people with humor?

239

00:18:10,060 --> 00:18:16,340

I want, I want a, I want 'em to know I've seen it, but I want other people to see that I, I've seen it.

240

00:18:16,460 --> 00:18:21,380

I, it's, it's, and it is probably the like, absolute wrong way to do it.

241

00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:31,660

But I, I want sort of like do sort like a Game of Thrones thing where I drag em through the streets and they said, and everyone goes, shame shame shame and, and throw stuff happening.

242

00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:36,510

I wanna do like an onward version of that every time I, I reply to someone.

243

00:18:37,090 --> 00:18:44,030

You sound really good at being able to put things in either dealing with it with humor or completely ignoring it and cracking on with your own life.

244

00:18:44,380 --> 00:18:45,270

Does that sound fair?

245

00:18:46,380 --> 00:18:46,670

Yeah.

246

00:18:46,970 --> 00:18:48,310

It is all about perspective.

247

00:18:48,460 --> 00:18:48,750

Yeah.

248

00:18:48,970 --> 00:18:57,270

And actually you, you, you brought up something there that um, I think will be really useful for our listeners to, um, to hear your opinion on.

249

00:18:57,730 --> 00:19:05,590

So you said that if someone comes up to you and asks you a question about your disability, your really cool with that mm-hmm.

250

00:19:05,630 --> 00:19:10,550

<affirmative> and I think there is a lot of, uh, I dunno what to say, so I'd rather not say anything.

251

00:19:11,130 --> 00:19:20,990

Or, um, if you're with a child who asks a much more direct question than any adult can probably likely do, then they're really embarrassed.

252

00:19:21,590 --> 00:19:26,990

I mean, how would you encourage people to um, to, to talk openly about disability?

253

00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:28,990

Yeah.

254

00:19:29,210 --> 00:19:33,670

As long as people are coming at it with like a clear head and a full heart, then rock and roll.

255

00:19:33,690 --> 00:19:41,270

And I, I'd rather someone have a crack at it, get it wrong and then, and then be a lot evenly correct it.

256

00:19:42,170 --> 00:19:47,410

I don't like putting people on blasts when they get it wrong because I think that's part of the problem.

257

00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:57,330

There's a small section of the disability community, so I just from ruling for an argument as they wake up every day and choose violence.

258

00:19:58,190 --> 00:20:05,090

And I think the more eggshells you put down for people to potentially trip on, the less likely they're gonna walk there anyway.

259

00:20:05,910 --> 00:20:06,770

So yeah.

260

00:20:06,970 --> 00:20:24,650

I think, I think, uh, as, as much as I want people to already have it right in their heads, I equally think it sits the the the right and noble thing to do to teach people how to get it right and to get people used to saying the D word.

261

00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:25,730

Yeah.

262

00:20:26,650 --> 00:20:27,890

Excellent use of idioms by the way.

263

00:20:27,910 --> 00:20:31,170

The eggshell thing, 10 out tent love it.

264

00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,530

It's, it's almost like it's my job, right?

265

00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:34,090

It's,

266

00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,890

It's, it's like you talking in sound bites.

267

00:20:37,170 --> 00:20:40,010

I mean this is gonna be a dream <laugh> to edit <laugh>.

268

00:20:41,030 --> 00:20:52,720

So come then teach or tell us a bit about how you challenge imposter syndrome when you're walking into a situation where you've got an audition or you're going in for an interview or you're gonna do a TEDx talk.

269

00:20:53,460 --> 00:20:56,800

How do you have that word with yourself to overcome it personally?

270

00:20:57,340 --> 00:21:00,280

Uh, I think, I think a little bit nervousness is good.

271

00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:01,960

I, who was I talking to?

272

00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:08,650

I was talking to the Victoria Jenkins from Channel Four's, the unique boutique who is a friend of mul.

273

00:21:08,970 --> 00:21:10,970

'cause we're, we're doing a, a fashion show together.

274

00:21:11,550 --> 00:21:19,170

And um, yeah, a little bit of nerves are good because if you're not nervous about what you do, it means you don't tear.

275

00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:23,450

And the day I stop tearing is the day I need to hang it up.

276

00:21:23,750 --> 00:21:26,090

And that someone that does give a shit take over.

277

00:21:27,390 --> 00:21:37,330

So yeah, I, I I I, you know, you, you do get reserves and you, you do sort of like find yourself in situation and feel you like what is, what did you do in your face?

278

00:21:38,270 --> 00:21:45,290

But then you, you did your head of what, or you have your, your have, have you seen the film Cool runnings?

279

00:21:45,570 --> 00:21:46,970

I mean a very long time ago,

280

00:21:47,950 --> 00:21:52,050

You know, that bit when you looked in the mirror, it's like I see pride, I see power.

281

00:21:52,270 --> 00:21:53,930

Yes, I see a badass man.

282

00:21:53,930 --> 00:21:55,930

Well, don't take no crap up with nobody.

283

00:21:56,370 --> 00:22:01,730

I do it and sometimes I catch myself doing it in the accent and have to stop <laugh>.

284

00:22:02,190 --> 00:22:02,410

285

00:22:03,470 --> 00:22:05,690

So positive affirmation though, that's a good message.

286

00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:06,930

Yeah.

287

00:22:07,070 --> 00:22:11,930

And, and I don't think you, you find yourself in situations by mistake.

288

00:22:12,510 --> 00:22:15,650

And it comes back to if you weren't the real deal you wouldn't be there.

289

00:22:16,150 --> 00:22:19,370

And if you weren't the real deal, you wouldn't get in imposter syndrome.

290

00:22:20,780 --> 00:22:24,470

Yeah, I mean I suppose there are different interpretations of imposter syndrome, right?

291

00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:31,870

There are people who genuinely feel like an imposter in that I should not be here, I don't deserve to be here.

292

00:22:32,130 --> 00:22:37,630

And then I suppose there are literal imposters who are faking it 'cause they don't have the right qualifications.

293

00:22:38,450 --> 00:22:40,790

But, but imposters don't get imposter syndrome.

294

00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:41,830

Hmm.

295

00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:43,940

No, I'm chewing that over.

296

00:22:43,940 --> 00:22:44,460

You're right.

297

00:22:45,140 --> 00:22:49,580

'cause they believe they should be there or that they are faking it on purpose.

298

00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:50,540

Is that what you mean?

299

00:22:50,770 --> 00:22:51,660

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

300

00:22:51,660 --> 00:22:51,820

Yeah.

301

00:22:51,820 --> 00:22:58,460

The only people that don't get imposter on the imposters, which is why I would always advocate for a little bit of syndrome.

302

00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,320

'cause it means you're the real deal and that you give a shit about what you're doing.

303

00:23:03,180 --> 00:23:03,400

Yes.

304

00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:05,680

It has to be a healthy amount though.

305

00:23:06,220 --> 00:23:14,080

Um, because, so I dunno, you probably listened to Ollie Lambert's, um, episode, super successful BAFTA ward winning director in war zones.

306

00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:17,240

I mean, heavy burden to, to bear.

307

00:23:17,780 --> 00:23:26,340

And I think there, there was certainly a time in his career where he felt he simply could not make that film.

308

00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:27,460

He wasn't worthy of it.

309

00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,380

He could never tell a story as big as the Syrian war.

310

00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,460

Um, and it negatively impacted him.

311

00:23:34,530 --> 00:23:40,740

Whereas coming back round to this part of his career, I think he's got it in check and just enough of it to check himself.

312

00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:42,380

Um, yeah.

313

00:23:42,380 --> 00:23:42,660

Yeah.

314

00:23:42,660 --> 00:23:43,420

Is that how you feel?

315

00:23:44,430 --> 00:24:03,880

Yeah, I think think when, when it gets to a point where it's like anxiety inducing, because I I, and it's the only time I've ever really it's become a problem was when I've had to do my first actual keynote bleach and it was the one, the greatest Association of Counselors and Psychotherapy, which

316

00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,000

Rolls off the tongue, doesn't it?

317

00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:05,880

Yeah.

318

00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:08,960

And I was like, I've gotta go for an hour on this.

319

00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,660

And because the longest I've done was like maybe 20 minutes.

320

00:24:14,690 --> 00:24:14,980

Yeah.

321

00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,620

So like an hour with q and a just felt like a lot.

322

00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:31,320

And you know, I, I know I'd got my head together and wrote it, but writing it was just, ah, I've, I've never been so anxious in my life then getting ready for that keynote load.

323

00:24:31,940 --> 00:24:33,680

And Did anything throw you at the time?

324

00:24:34,380 --> 00:24:35,680

Oh, just, just doing it.

325

00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,040

It just felt overwhelming.

326

00:24:38,380 --> 00:24:41,440

So I was like, ah, is this, is this the day?

327

00:24:41,580 --> 00:24:51,560

Is this the gig where everyone realizes I've been shaking it the whole time, <laugh> and it all comes cracking down ev every gig.

328

00:24:51,780 --> 00:24:54,000

I'm like, is this the one where they find out you're an idiot?

329

00:24:54,700 --> 00:25:00,960

Is this the one where you let the laugh slip and everyone finds out you're a moron and you never work again?

330

00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:06,480

<laugh>.

331

00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:07,640

I think that will be reassuring for people to hear because I, well I think most people have been there.

332

00:25:08,570 --> 00:25:08,920

Right.

333

00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,640

I want to ask you about acting in Hollywood films.

334

00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:19,160

You've actually done a couple, um, haven't you or you've been, you've played yourself in a film as well as playing opposite scar of your hanssen in Under the Skin.

335

00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:19,920

Yeah.

336

00:25:19,980 --> 00:25:21,600

Played, played my stuff in his rib.

337

00:25:21,940 --> 00:25:28,230

Did, um, change for Life with Jess Wester and I've just done one with Sebastian Stan.

338

00:25:29,630 --> 00:25:32,670

I mean, it sounds like your acting career is going fantastically.

339

00:25:33,170 --> 00:25:37,870

How does it compare from working in a UK TV production office?

340

00:25:39,130 --> 00:25:47,970

Um, there's, there's a lot more waiting around in, in acting like in, in the TV office, there was always something to do, right?

341

00:25:48,130 --> 00:26:01,610

I either something was going wrong and it was a cock brought ground board of the fictional or your, your commissioner had unrealistic expectations that you were trying to, to manage like on only on data laws.

342

00:26:01,730 --> 00:26:12,610

I reckon at one point anything that wasn't a one-legged tap dancing lesbian in a wheelchair wasn't good enough to like Lucy, but that, so it, it was just like, what are you want on me?

343

00:26:13,310 --> 00:26:17,450

So it it, it's a lot more waiting around.

344

00:26:17,670 --> 00:26:24,530

But one, one stop on set, everything just runs like, yeah.

345

00:26:24,670 --> 00:26:33,810

And e even even like the, even even getting to that point where you've gotta go to like the US Embassy and get, get your performer visa.

346

00:26:34,770 --> 00:26:40,830

'cause I had my eye visa through, through Betty, but an O Visa is way more rigid.

347

00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:49,720

'cause you've gotta go, you've gotta prove to them that you are the only guy that can do that job and why haven't they hide and, and, and yada yada yada.

348

00:26:50,380 --> 00:26:52,160

And yeah, it, it's intense.

349

00:26:52,740 --> 00:26:58,480

And so did you have to rehearse with Scarlet, um, before you filmed it for a few days?

350

00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,920

Or does it not work like that you rehearse separate again and you just come together and shoot it?

351

00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:06,640

Well I, and lot of the under the skin stock is improvised.

352

00:27:06,860 --> 00:27:13,000

We had bullet points we had to hit, but there was no real hard line script that we had to pitch to.

353

00:27:13,710 --> 00:27:20,930

We both had air pieces in and we directed, Jonathan was in the back of the van, sort of like giving us a direct Shane.

354

00:27:21,990 --> 00:27:24,930

But no, we hadn't done any rehearsing per se.

355

00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:37,730

We'd had a couple of meetings prior to discuss the character and just get to know each other because it was just like, I was asked if someone pulled up to down an du a lift, would you get in?

356

00:27:38,110 --> 00:27:40,970

And I'm like, no, but I have children go missing.

357

00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:45,810

Why would I get in a van with someone I don't know, <laugh> or they're puppies in it as well.

358

00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:46,250

Jesus.

359

00:27:46,910 --> 00:27:53,010

And so we, we sort like worked on the character and what both are motivated in the scene would be.

360

00:27:54,370 --> 00:27:57,830

So once we got the set, we all knew where, where we were.

361

00:27:58,250 --> 00:28:01,230

So you must have felt really bloody nervous for that though.

362

00:28:02,690 --> 00:28:03,660

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

363

00:28:03,660 --> 00:28:03,860

Yeah.

364

00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,910

There, there there's one point where, um, I got my airs in and the director's like, call me patient.

365

00:28:09,010 --> 00:28:11,670

You're gonna have down with Scar at your hands, what you gonna do?

366

00:28:11,810 --> 00:28:13,110

And I like, I so

367

00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:16,910

I mean that is terrifying.

368

00:28:17,170 --> 00:28:22,310

And you, you hadn't had formal acting training or even a warmup to any of this stuff, right?

369

00:28:22,370 --> 00:28:22,590

No.

370

00:28:22,610 --> 00:28:23,910

And they, they must have known that.

371

00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:35,390

I mean that sounds like the definition of imposter syndrome going from, you know, working on TV shows and bit of presenting to acting opposite a very famous, beautiful person.

372

00:28:36,580 --> 00:28:36,870

Yeah.

373

00:28:37,170 --> 00:28:46,230

And there was, um, but then, then I tend to, maybe it's 'cause I'm, I'm a simpleton, but I, I I tend to walk into those situations.

374

00:28:46,510 --> 00:28:48,670

I, I I put like a, a stand.

375

00:28:49,150 --> 00:28:49,910

I just will be good.

376

00:28:49,910 --> 00:28:50,710

This will be fine.

377

00:28:51,100 --> 00:28:51,830

This is great.

378

00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:57,070

I find if, if you overthink it, it can, it can eat you up.

379

00:28:57,190 --> 00:29:02,850

I think So, um, talking about your career as a whole mm-hmm.

380

00:29:02,890 --> 00:29:04,850

<affirmative> and all the variety of stuff that you've done.

381

00:29:05,670 --> 00:29:17,360

Can you think about or can you give me the point where you felt you lacked most self-esteem and that you, it was there a moment where you thought, I don't wanna do this anymore?

382

00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,600

A a real low point from your career?

383

00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:28,470

There there was a period of just constant, constant being sat on diversity panels and nothing changing.

384

00:29:29,570 --> 00:29:54,660

And it, it got to the point where I was like, I think, I think I, I think I said it very publicly at refresh of all, I think I just said, how many more of these panels are you gonna make me do before you listen to what I say and and crack on How many times is in certainly here gonna make a pledge and not follow through on it before we we start making a difference?

385

00:29:54,850 --> 00:29:55,140

Yeah.

386

00:29:55,950 --> 00:29:59,850

And yeah, so there, there was that like year, two year period.

387

00:30:00,490 --> 00:30:02,970

I was just incredibly frustrated

388

00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:06,090

In just a minute.

389

00:30:06,430 --> 00:30:13,730

People like it when you are, when you're real with them, when you rock up, walk to normal and are unashamedly yourself, always be yourself.

390

00:30:13,970 --> 00:30:14,650

'cause everyone else is taken.

391

00:30:23,260 --> 00:30:26,080

The Imposter Club podcast is to help you feel less alone.

392

00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:28,600

Go and share it with someone you know who'd benefit.

393

00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:36,680

Now back to the chat, do you think things have moved forward in a more positive way since then?

394

00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,520

I think, uh, the disability levels have gone down.

395

00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:41,440

I think they're shocking.

396

00:30:42,850 --> 00:30:45,090

I think in, I think we've excelled in other areas.

397

00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:54,930

I think the, the progress made, uh, um, like, um, diverse talent in terms of race has been incredible.

398

00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:58,890

Though I think disability, we're still a long way off it.

399

00:30:59,250 --> 00:31:05,530

Proportionally it's the largest minority group in the uk but it's the least represented both off and on screen.

400

00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:06,250

Yeah.

401

00:31:06,550 --> 00:31:11,970

As an aside actually we're try, we're trying to get people on our database, you know, if they want to.

402

00:31:12,090 --> 00:31:24,530

'cause it's so incredibly personal to disclose because I think we, we do have a lot more people than we know about who are disabled, but have either chosen not to tell us or didn't know how to Yeah.

403

00:31:24,790 --> 00:31:27,570

And without that, but, but also it is, it's so personal.

404

00:31:27,570 --> 00:31:29,210

Some people just don't want people to know.

405

00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:33,010

And like you've said at various points, it's like kind of, you know, none of their business.

406

00:31:33,010 --> 00:31:33,730

Can we just crack on?

407

00:31:33,850 --> 00:31:34,930

'cause I'm good at what I do.

408

00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:36,410

Yeah,

409

00:31:36,410 --> 00:31:37,290

There's definitely that.

410

00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:37,930

Okay.

411

00:31:37,930 --> 00:31:41,140

And what about, can you tell me a highlight of your career?

412

00:31:43,090 --> 00:31:44,150

Oh, sweetly.

413

00:31:44,260 --> 00:31:55,190

It's really easy to say, you know, there's the movies 'cause you get to work with great people and you get to like what I did for Sebastian Stanford, I got to live in with hit two months.

414

00:31:55,190 --> 00:31:55,550

Awesome.

415

00:31:56,570 --> 00:31:58,830

So, so those things are always great.

416

00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:05,950

But me and, um, Tom Levine recently reconnected and we, we found out about it.

417

00:32:06,330 --> 00:32:17,990

The, uh, the day of the deadline, uh, there's, there's a really small media company called Disney who were looking for short film scripts from underrepresented groups.

418

00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,500

So I got this call from Tom saying, you want to submit something?

419

00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:24,540

And I was just like, yeah, let's do it.

420

00:32:25,150 --> 00:32:29,050

And um, he was working on that, the Rosie Jones doc or something born.

421

00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,330

It's just, just come out.

422

00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:40,600

And so he, he ran out of the, uh, the edit and we, we printed to the popup and handed out this, uh, idea about, uh, disabled dun the Dragons players <laugh>

423

00:32:40,670 --> 00:32:40,960

Cool.

424

00:32:41,660 --> 00:32:49,870

And um, and then we, we sent it off and then he, he calls me about a month later and goes, yeah, we've gotta go pitch it.

425

00:32:49,870 --> 00:32:50,830

We're in the final 12.

426

00:32:51,170 --> 00:32:51,390

Wow.

427

00:32:52,050 --> 00:32:55,710

So we got to the final 12 from I think 430 ideas.

428

00:32:55,810 --> 00:32:56,270

Got to

429

00:32:56,460 --> 00:32:57,270

What an achievement.

430

00:32:57,810 --> 00:32:59,390

And then, and then we're like, okay.

431

00:32:59,450 --> 00:33:00,910

And he's like, how do we pick this?

432

00:33:01,090 --> 00:33:04,380

And I'm like, oh, I'm, I've got you again.

433

00:33:04,380 --> 00:33:05,380

They don't have to like you.

434

00:33:05,380 --> 00:33:06,540

They've just gotta remember you.

435

00:33:06,610 --> 00:33:07,260

What did you do?

436

00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:12,380

So we went in and we just sort of like, we just spoke for 10 and it was like a 45 minute thing we had to do.

437

00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:18,840

And we spent 10 minutes of it just explain a new idea and how we knew each other and what have you.

438

00:33:19,460 --> 00:33:27,680

And then for q and a, which was the, the majority of it, I, I made them roll dice to determine how well we'd answer that question.

439

00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,200

<laugh>, I turned the entire pitch into a gap of and dip.

440

00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:31,640

Awesome.

441

00:33:32,860 --> 00:33:41,160

And I think someone asked a really important question about money and rolled a one and I called them ridiculous and stupid and moved on really, really quickly.

442

00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:46,520

<laugh>

443

00:33:42,860 --> 00:33:44,040

Did they seem to like it?

444

00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:49,610

Well, a a after we left, luckily one of the Disney execs was a former d and d player.

445

00:33:49,610 --> 00:33:49,770

Player.

446

00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:52,810

And so as soon as we left, he just turned to the hole went.

447

00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,850

Just so you all know, that was brilliant.

448

00:33:55,490 --> 00:33:58,850

<laugh>, you've got some serious balls to do that.

449

00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,690

Adam, I don't know where you get your confidence from.

450

00:34:03,210 --> 00:34:07,690

I dunno, it seems to have been inherent actually as we are kind of wrapping up our chat here.

451

00:34:07,690 --> 00:34:21,429

But you seem to have been born with the ability to walk in a room and own it in the nicest possible way, you know, is that, would you say that's a natural thing or have you sort of had to learn that?

452

00:34:22,830 --> 00:34:30,830

I think, I think I was, I was, as I said, I always natural and quite charismatic, but then you, you need to learn again.

453

00:34:30,870 --> 00:34:41,670

I think it's communication skills are really important and you've got to meet people where they are, run where you wish they were and and talk to 'em sort of on, on a level.

454

00:34:42,290 --> 00:35:01,490

And I think people, people like it when you are, when you are real with them, when you rock up, walk to all and at unashamedly yourself, I i I always be yourself 'cause everyone else is taken and, and you know, sometimes it doesn't work and you go a little bit too far and confident can become arrogance.

455

00:35:02,350 --> 00:35:04,490

But in those situations I'm disabled.

456

00:35:04,650 --> 00:35:05,410

I don't know any better.

457

00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:08,970

So yeah, we all, we all move on.

458

00:35:10,330 --> 00:35:14,790

But yeah, you know, head down, crack on and let's, let's do this.

459

00:35:15,330 --> 00:35:16,950

That's always been my attitude.

460

00:35:17,850 --> 00:35:19,550

It is very infectious as well.

461

00:35:19,620 --> 00:35:21,630

I've been grinning throughout this chat.

462

00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:23,230

Um, last question then.

463

00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:29,670

What, what advice would you give to your younger self?

464

00:35:31,660 --> 00:35:35,740

I, I'd be, I'd say like, you'll, it works out fine.

465

00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,480

You'll, you'll do a good kid, keep doing what you're doing.

466

00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:50,950

There aren't enough good people in our industry and so we make sure you are one of them and don't become part of the problem, be part of the, the solution.

467

00:35:51,920 --> 00:36:07,460

There's a lot of people in this industry who don't need to be here, who are just fing on for the pension and Yeah, no, there, there are, there there's a real, there's a layer of people in TV whose so job it is, is to not take risks.

468

00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,820

And unfortunately that layer is right at the top.

469

00:36:10,130 --> 00:36:11,380

Yeah, I I hear you.

470

00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:11,620

471

00:36:11,620 --> 00:36:17,540

Yeah, no, take risks, be a good guy and be, be nice to people.

472

00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,140

No what capacity it's in.

473

00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,100

If, if you're be nice to the higher up.

474

00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:29,580

Be nice to the lower downs and don't ask people, and I really stop this.

475

00:36:30,590 --> 00:36:37,260

Don't particularly when you're casting, don't ask people to do something that you wouldn't be prepared to do.

476

00:36:38,410 --> 00:36:38,700

Okay.

477

00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:40,580

That's an interesting one.

478

00:36:40,690 --> 00:36:42,380

Have you, have you been in that situation

479

00:36:43,580 --> 00:36:51,710

When I was casting your data walls, I was like, would I do, would I go on this show if I was called and after do this, would I do it?

480

00:36:51,970 --> 00:36:55,270

And if the answer's no, I've got no right to ask someone else to do it.

481

00:36:55,420 --> 00:36:56,470

Yeah, that's a good gauge.

482

00:36:56,700 --> 00:37:00,190

It's like a, an ethical, ethical gauge there.

483

00:37:00,820 --> 00:37:01,110

Yeah.

484

00:37:01,740 --> 00:37:13,310

Well 'cause a lot of series two on a lot of the people I called, I just called from my mobile when all the others were calling charities and, and swinging blind in the dark idiots <laugh>.

485

00:37:13,630 --> 00:37:15,270

I was just calling my friends <laugh>.

486

00:37:15,780 --> 00:37:17,670

Well that's lived experience, right?

487

00:37:18,050 --> 00:37:18,270

488

00:37:18,270 --> 00:37:20,830

Also disabled people are talented in in their own right.

489

00:37:21,210 --> 00:37:25,710

Um, or whatever I do my, um, D n I training and my consultancy stock.

490

00:37:26,490 --> 00:37:31,590

I'm like, if you're only gonna hire someone because they're dyslexic, congratulations.

491

00:37:31,810 --> 00:37:33,750

You've just not hired Richard Franson.

492

00:37:34,850 --> 00:37:54,110

Um, if you're not gonna hire like you always voted loan, if that's what you are using to not hire someone you've lost out on Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Richard Branson, and, uh, say hey to Jerry, who's the guy that made Pokemon and I should call, there's not a day that goes by where one of those four people hasn't made my life better.

493

00:37:54,630 --> 00:37:55,550

<laugh>, I feel you.

494

00:37:56,370 --> 00:37:56,590

Yes.

495

00:37:57,290 --> 00:38:01,310

Oh, Adam, thank you so much for coming on the Imposter Club podcast.

496

00:38:01,710 --> 00:38:07,270

I hope you, um, have enjoyed spilling and it wasn't too deeply personal.

497

00:38:07,350 --> 00:38:10,870

I know you're always happy to, to talk as openly and I really respect

498

00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:11,070

That.

499

00:38:11,070 --> 00:38:11,270

Yeah.

500

00:38:11,370 --> 00:38:14,150

If it, if it isn't, if it isn't personal, what's the point?

501

00:38:14,250 --> 00:38:14,950

Thanks Adam.

502

00:38:15,130 --> 00:38:16,270

Really appreciate it.

503

00:38:16,690 --> 00:38:17,110

No problem.

504

00:38:19,250 --> 00:38:22,950

That's it for this episode of The Imposter Club, brought to you by talented people.

505

00:38:23,690 --> 00:38:30,510

I'm Kimberly Godbolt and it has been lovely to hang out with you while you commute slash gym slash dog walk or whatever you're doing.

506

00:38:31,250 --> 00:38:37,920

If this has struck a chord, please go ahead and share it with your friends in that closed WhatsApp group, I'm not in or on your social networks.

507

00:38:38,260 --> 00:38:45,480

Our aim is to reach as many fellow imposters as we can to share love and learnings and create a sense of belonging.

508

00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:50,200

And if you haven't already, follow or subscribe to the pod so you don't miss an episode drop.

509

00:38:53,010 --> 00:39:00,720

Thank you to talented people, produced and hosted by me, Kimberly Godbolt, exec producer Rosie Turner, editor Ben Mullins.

510

00:39:01,180 --> 00:39:01,680

See you later.

From hospital to Hollywood: Adam Pearson on finding the confidence to be unashamedly yourself

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