Why I didn't want to be a commissioner - UKTV's Sarah Asante reveals her secrets to work/life balance and self-belief

Transcript

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The Imposter Club is produced by Talented People, staffing and headhunting company in TV production with a mission to make the industry a happier, more creatively diverse place.

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Coming up,

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It's when I became the decision maker and I was walking into those spaces and it was confused looks and the almost coffee order until they clocked the name badge and then it all no <laugh>.

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This is the Imposter Club, the podcast uniting all us tv, film, and content folk secretly stressing that everyone else has its sorted.

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Except us.

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I'm Kimberly Gobolt, TV director, turn staff and company founder.

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And each episode I want you to hear the real story of a successful industry figure.

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Not the glossy announcements we usually see, but the truth of their career journey, including the bumpy bits to help you make sense of your own health warning.

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This podcast may incur whiplash from violent nodding plus an unfamiliar, but hopefully welcome feeling of belonging.

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Today I'm warmly welcoming Sarah Asante to the Imposter Club.

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Sarah was the first ever black female commissioner in B B C history and is now an award-winning commissioning editor at UK tv, driving the multi-channel broadcasters scripted comedy ambitions.

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She's responsible for seeking out developing commissioning and executive producing the clever and funny stuff we watch on channels Dave and Gold.

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Back at the B B C, she started in the comedy team as a development and digital content editor and was promoted to commissioning editor a couple of years later, looking after short and long form sketch and sitcom ideas for BBC two and BBC three, including cult hit sketch show and personal favor of Mine, Fama Lamb and Comedy web series Turn TV award winner Dreaming whilst black Sarah came into TV later the most from an established career in advertising.

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So I'm looking forward to asking her all the whys and hows involved in that.

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But first off, thank you so much, Sarah for joining me on the Imposter Club.

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Oh,

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Thanks so much for having me, Kimberly.

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It's great to be here.

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So let's talk about your relationship with imposter syndrome, if you have one.

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Mm-hmm.

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<affirmative>, how would you describe, uh, your feelings towards it and about it over your career?

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I think imposter syndrome, I've got sort of mixed feelings about it.

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On one hand it feels like it's a, um, a club for the others.

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It's the thing that only women get asked or people of coluor get asked or people with a different sexuality get asked or ability.

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Um, so it sort of, it, it comes across as a bit of a labelling thing.

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But on the flip side, it's also actually quite comforting to know that there are people having honest conversations about belonging and feeling like you are where you, you are supposed to be and the different conversations around that.

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For myself, I think you said in my intro, you know, I joined tv, um, the TV industry, um, age 30 just before my 31st birthday actually, um, in 2006.

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So having been around people at different levels, I joined as an assistant.

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So I was in the assistant class with the young, sort of early 20 year olds looking after commissioners who were only sort of five or six years older than me.

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It really gave me an opportunity to kind of swim in between that space in a way that I don't think feeling like an imposter ever really landed with me because I was there to learn.

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I was there to discover.

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I knew a lot about myself, so there wasn't a lot of bullshit that I would take on myself.

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Um, I could tell the difference between somebody having a go 'cause they're having a bad day versus somebody having a go because they're an asshole <laugh>.

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So I think when you know that you stop questioning yourself, you stop saying, oh, he probably shouted at me because of something I did.

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Or Right, they're using all this jargon and I should know this, and things like that.

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I knew straight away within myself, there are ways in which we talk in this industry a very exclusionary, and you've got to do a quick search or a quick nudge of your colleagues sitting nearby and say, what the hell is that?

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Um, because you know, this industry really does feel like a club and it does make you feel like if you dunno the right terms or went to the right union or know the right friends or, or of this kind of right tick boxy stuff, then you are not supposed to be here.

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And we all internalize that and I think women in particular and outsiders internalize that more than most.

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So you said you came into the industry at 30 mm-hmm.

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<affirmative>.

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Um, I would have thought that actually you've been talking about self-confidence that you actually came in with more confidence.

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You felt because you were older, but actually you could have been the exact other way.

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You could have come in going, I know nothing.

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I, I mean, how, how did you choose the confident version versus the Oh my gosh, I'm totally, uh, faking this?

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Yeah, that's innate.

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I think, you know, there are some of us who are sort of roll up your sleeves, never been in this building before.

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I wonder what I'll learn today.

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And that's definitely who I am, as opposed to roll up your sleeves, hope they don't find out I'm not supposed to be here, kind of vibe.

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So yeah, I don't think I've ever, I don't enter many spaces in which I am completely unaware of when I say I came from advertising to tv.

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I was in TV advertising, I was trained as a copywriter, so I kind of knew the space, kind of knew the, um, environment.

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And also landing where I landed at a company like Channel four.

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They had such a brilliant commissioning management team there that really looked after all of the assistants.

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I moved around as a floating assistant.

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I, I arrived in, um, sort of march.

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By August I was permanent.

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And in that time I'd done a little stint with, um, film for a little stint with acquisitions, a little stint with specialist factual stint with news and current affairs and with commissioning management themselves, looking after their diaries during the summer holidays and things like that.

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And I just, it was such a magical place to start.

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And what I really appreciated is how they really embraced the buddy system.

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So they made sure that my first week I had lunch with fellow assistants.

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They made sure that every team has a couple of assistants.

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They made sure that we spent some time together, um, showing you the ropes.

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You were never thrown in at the deep end.

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They don't set you up to fail there.

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Um, in those days you weren't set up to fail there.

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Important.

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So that was really important.

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And therefore,

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And it's a lot of why this podcast exists, Sarah, in all honesty, because, you know, I want, we want people to know that they are not alone.

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There's so many people wondering the same questions, doubting the same things, struggling with something, and you were buddied up there with other people.

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Yeah.

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Whereas this freelance industry where you don't get a job in a staff place very often.

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Exactly.

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And was actually assisted you with that.

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Yeah,

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Absolutely.

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<laugh>.

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So let's go back to, tell me about Sarah.

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I wanna know where you grew up.

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Like was it always a given?

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You were gonna work in the media?

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Tell me about your background.

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It might

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Have been a given actually.

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Um, I was actually born in Ghana, west Africa.

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Um, I came with my, over with my mum back when, um, kids didn't have passports.

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I was written in brackets as infant daughter Sarah.

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That was my full title, <laugh>.

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Um, you know, we, we, we kind of struggled.

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My mom kind of fell in love as soon as she got here.

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Dashing Ghanaian, British man had three more children.

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Um, his dashing led to dashing off, so she was sort of left looking after the four of us.

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And as the eldest and within sort of Ghanaian culture, you definitely take on the co-piloting kind of role.

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And because I had learned to speak English, um, fluently by the age of five, um, by the time my siblings came along, I was responsible for homework duties and making sure things were read and, um, uh, done on time, handed in on time.

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I was a massive, massive swat as a student, as a kid.

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<laugh>, I loved, loved, loved school, I loved learning.

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I was that asshole who was like, don't we have homework?

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Um, and everyone else was

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Like, Sarah,

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Shut up.

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Shut up.

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Um, I used to stick my hands in the end, it's ugh, brain box again.

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Here she goes.

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So I was always that girl and you know, with my black friends, it was all brain blocks, give it a rest.

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And with my white friends, it was like, why are you trying to act white?

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Why are you trying to speak proper and do your homework on top?

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So I always sat in this kind of like, sort of middle ground and ditto.

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I'd like to hang out with the cool kids in the park who are passing around a single cigarette amongst six or seven of us, or the single bottle of K cider amongst six or seven of us <laugh>, while also secretly going home and doing my homework and getting that in on time.

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Wow.

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So <laugh>,

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That's, that is a stretch though, isn't it, to try and be the cool kid and the SWOT and the kind of co-parent.

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Yeah.

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So there was a lot going on and I think that kind of cemented my ability to multitask.

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It also cemented my ability to do that thing called code switching, which is sounding street with my street mates sounding proper with my office mates hanging out on, on the park bench saying, oh, look at him playing football.

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He's cute.

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While also getting my homework in.

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So I was trying to be all things to all people, but not in a people pleaser way more in a, I'm really curious about all these worlds and I think I'm gonna step into them all.

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Don't you just love that about our industry, though I've used to love that about freelancing, um, and landing in a project and it was about, I don't know, one of them a documentary about Britain's biggest babies and I had to learn all the things all of a sudden about what makes a baby grow a certain way inside a woman's stomach and all the factors for us to cast and find the people in the, and you just become for like three to six months an instant expert.

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Yeah.

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On absolutely everything.

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Yeah.

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Little talk

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Bit.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And then the next month I'm making a show about Heston Blumenthal and Little Chef.

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I mean that, that is what I love about tv.

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So you were able to do that by hopping between roles and departments and that probably like really satisfied your, your curious nature.

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Very.

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So imagine someone with a curious nature working in an industry where you're not boxed in.

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You know, as a teenager I worked at, um, Tesco and Portobello Road, I worked at House of Fraser in the coats department.

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This is your bit, this is your square inch.

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Don't go beyond it.

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You only sell coats.

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Don't talk to anyone about shoes.

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So going from those kind of regimented, stay in your lane spaces to working in TV where the variety was endless, um, you know, you say something like factual, that could be anything.

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It's business documentaries, it's history, it's science, it's arts, it's religion.

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That really, really appealed to me.

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So as soon as I got there, it was supposed to be a two week, um, uh, holiday cover and I ended up staying there for three years.

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Wow.

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And let's face it, when there is a label in telly to do with genres, no one really knows what it means.

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Anyway.

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They're all blurry around the edges, aren't they?

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Yeah, exactly.

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You know, what is factual entertainment?

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Let's try and define that tricky.

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Um, um, so your mom must have been incredibly proud of you growing up and looking after the, uh, you know, your siblings is the way you did and then launching your career in firstly advertising.

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Yeah, I think she was really, um, disappointed in her inability to continue in education.

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I think she had me at 21.

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She got up as far as the Ghanaian equivalent of a-level, but she always instilled education in us because education was the one love of her life.

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Um, reading and languages.

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Um, she spoke English, French, um, fante and twi

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So she was very, um, disappointed not to have that.

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So I was the first in my family to get a degree.

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I was the first, um, in my family to make sure I crossed that threshold.

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What made you choose the advertising side of TV then?

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And then how did you, how did you make that leap across to production?

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It was interesting because I knew I wanted to work in media.

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I skipped a little bit when I was, um, 11 or 12.

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Please don't go and look this up, internet sleuth.

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Oh, already there.

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But I was in a, I was in a TV show on, um, children's I t v called and the whole, I'll never say, um, the whole time I was on there, I was far more intrigued with all the behind scenes people than my fellow cast members or, um, even the director or the producer.

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They just seemed to be kind of very busy with clipboards.

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Meanwhile, there was a whole engine that was making it all happen.

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All of that was really, really fascinating to me.

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So there was always a fascination.

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And then when it came time to pick my degree, course I knew I wanted to do media, but I kind of wanted to do journalism.

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I wanted to do something to do with writing.

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And I did a media arts course and you had to pick a specialism and journalism wasn't available.

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But when I saw advertising, my best friend at the time was a fantastic illustrator.

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Her family is full of freehand illustrators.

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And then I saw that one of the, the pairings that you have when you learn advertising is copywriter and, um, art director.

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So you have somebody knows how to write and somebody knows how to draw.

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So I said, let's partner up, I'll do all the writing, you do all the pictures.

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And that's why I picked advertising because I got to write and not in the long form of journalism in the shorter form of advertiser, but it was still storytelling.

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And I was always attracted to storytelling.

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So have you always liked the funny stuff is have you always gravitated towards comedy?

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Yeah,

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I'm the funny one in my friend group.

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I'm the sort of the jokester.

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I'm the, I just think humour masks and also nourishes a lot in life.

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I think, you know, we have this, um, phenomenon on the internet called black Twitter.

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And part of what makes black Twitter so brilliant is no matter what the topic and it's often adversarial topics, we'll find the funny in it.

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You know, I didn't have a great childhood and you know, we weren't, we were very, very, um, poor as kids and we didn't know we were the poor kids until everyone bragged about what they got for Christmas and came in with different trainers after the summer.

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And I think I've always been somebody that sort of, and always look on a bright side type, um, and just kind of cracked on and I've gravitated towards people that I've like mind.

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So my husband's kind of like that and my best friends are kind of like that.

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So yeah, it's a real needs must I think because what's the alternative?

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You look at the reality and cry, you know?

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So yeah, so looking for the funny has always been, um, it's been a south for me, but it's always been a default as well.

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In just a minute

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Something had clicked, some spark had happened where I knew I wasn't talking out of my ass.

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This is the Imposter Club and this chat is with Sarah Asante.

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So let's go back to you starting in your, uh, development job at the B B C then.

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So you sort of in scripted development, right?

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Yeah.

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And kind of did you know you wanted to commission?

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I actually weirdly, um, just to kind of track back a bit, so from an assistant at Channel four, I then went to work in, uh, I T V and then I had a little stint in production, in development, in production and then came back to Channel four, um, before a couple of leaps of the be and the whole time I've always worked with commissioners, I've always worked with the heads of departments and commissioners, and I think that's such, um, it's such a shorthand and it's such a boost over the wall in terms of what it looks like to run a team, what it looks like to be a creative lead, what it looks like to manage multiple spinning plates.

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Um, so I've kind of learned from the best.

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And it's really interesting when I was interviewed, when I was invited to interview for the, um, again, a maternity cover slot at the B B C that ended up what, that was meant to be six months and ended up being six years.

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Um, <laugh> when I was interviewed and I said, wait, what is this job?

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And they said, oh, it's development editor.

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It's sort of, um, it's getting first point of contact for all the ideas.

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Um, we're pivoting to digital first.

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We want to make sure that short form gets, um, as much attention as long form does and all this kind of stuff.

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And I said, right, okay.

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Digital editor, not commissioning editor.

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'cause those guys don't have lives <laugh>.

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So as long as it's digital editor I'm in, if it's commissioning editor, yeah.

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They don't have work-life balance from all the ones that I've seen.

210

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They are first in last out text messages at 1:00 AM emails at 2:00 AM sending themselves to-do lists.

211

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Interesting.

212

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So you knew that right off the bat, or, or at least that was your perspective of it.

213

00:17:49,910 --> 00:17:55,200

Yeah, I had a real allergy towards any roads towards commissioner and think, however

214

00:17:55,340 --> 00:18:00,400

You're saying that as if you want one now, are you talking about the Sarah then looking at the commissioners, then

215

00:18:00,620 --> 00:18:03,320

She found a way to make sure work-life balance remains.

216

00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,880

Everyone would, we're gonna get the secret of that right now.

217

00:18:09,380 --> 00:18:13,080

Um, so how did you, but how did you feel in those roles in those early days then?

218

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Like how did you find those tangible things to do that elevated you or made you deliver?

219

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I think I was able to track through, when I look at my cv, I can see how everything I've ever done has led to what I'm currently doing.

220

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You know, by work, by being trained in advertising as a copywriter, I understand how to tell a really full robust story in the shortest amount of time.

221

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So it made sense that I'd start off as a digital commissioner because I was looking to dig to, um, commission short form.

222

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I had a stint at Fox, um, international channels where I worked with the acquisitions and the content sales team identifying great scripts that were coming out of Fox Studios, us that could sell all around Europe and the rest of the world.

223

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So when I was working as a digital editor, that was mainly output on YouTube and that therefore global appeal and understanding what the global market is looking for, what are the universal roles, characters, subject matters that work.

224

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So working for a global channel at Fox allowed me to know what works globally.

225

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Um, so when we were releasing short form for Famalam, say the clips that we were, we were selecting clips at script stage.

226

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And then once we saw them filmed and when we were in the edit, we were either saying, oh yeah, that definitely we knew that was gonna work and that definitely will work as a standalone clip.

227

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Or actually that thing we thought would work.

228

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Let's have that one instead.

229

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Because what we were looking for is what's universal, what's global what, just as a shorthand, anyone who had the volume off or different language would just get, and that's why we released a lot of those, you know, the aunties fighting over the leftovers of Tupperware and things like that.

230

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Once we put that out, then it is sort of Asian people on the internet.

231

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Oh my god, this is so us Italian people.

232

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Oh my God, these are so my aunties, you know, Chinese people.

233

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Oh my God, this is so, so we knew what was universally, um, um, relevant to pump out there.

234

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And that had come and a lot of that instinct had come from, um, uh, previous roles, so, right.

235

00:20:17,710 --> 00:20:18,000

Yeah.

236

00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:18,200

Yeah.

237

00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:24,400

So you were kind of, you sort of felt that what you had done before was a kind of an ingredient Yes.

238

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In the, the, the recipe of the thing you were then delivering mm-hmm.

239

00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:33,320

<affirmative>.

240

00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:38,560

So actually some of those other roles where you pro, I don't know, you were learning it, but perhaps were not putting it into use suddenly came into use when you got into that particular, that must have been a very exciting feeling.

241

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Yeah.

242

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I remember myself talking in meetings and saying, you know, um, there's something really universal about this type of characterization and that type of characterization.

243

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I bet that will resonate here and I bet that'll resonate there.

244

00:20:52,780 --> 00:20:55,800

And then in the back of my head going, how do you know this?

245

00:20:56,350 --> 00:21:03,180

Something had clicked, some spark had happened where I knew I wasn't talking out of my ass.

246

00:21:03,260 --> 00:21:06,300

I was absolutely piecing things together.

247

00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:16,140

And you know what, the imposter syndrome thing definitely was trying to mess with me in those early years because that was my first decision making role.

248

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I've always been the coordinator of this and piecing together, I've always been first point of contact, I'll be the first person to see your idea coming in and knowing our needs and knowing the di the department's, um, tastes.

249

00:21:29,650 --> 00:21:32,380

I'll pump it along to one of my colleagues.

250

00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:48,900

And because of my, um, time in the industry looking after multiple programs, having hopped from factual to entertainment to now scripted comedy and pulling all of those experiences with me, there was a lot of trust in my taste and a lot of trust in my judgment.

251

00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:55,900

But I am that rare thing of a commissioning editor who didn't come from the program making world.

252

00:21:56,380 --> 00:21:58,900

I came rising through the ranks of broadcasters.

253

00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:07,100

So that's more like the US kind of system where if you're at the network, you're the network person and if you're in the trenches, you are the production person.

254

00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:14,580

So I'm very much the cut my teeth in broadcasters rose through the ranks at broadcasters.

255

00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:23,340

So when you look left and look right and everyone's exec producer or ex exec producer and things like that, you think, who am I to tell them how to piece it together?

256

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Who am I to instruct them on how things work?

257

00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:35,460

But you can't doubt your ability to speak on those topics when you know the audience needs better than them.

258

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You've read the quantum qual research, um, closer than them.

259

00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:57,500

You've watched all the output and you know what's worked, what hasn't worked, what was rejected, what was pushed through, and why you have all of this background knowledge that just on the surface, if you compare CV to CV may not look like you have the same things.

260

00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:03,180

But at the end of the day, being a creative lead is about delivering to the channel's needs.

261

00:23:03,410 --> 00:23:07,300

It's not about whether I've been there and done that and done that too.

262

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And sometimes you can be a little bit micro managery if you've done something before and don't, and and, and don't find it comfortable just getting out of people's ways and letting them crack on.

263

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Whereas for me, I've never made it before, but I know good when I see it and I know right for BBC two or right for BBC three when I see and hear it.

264

00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,980

So it's having faith that that's enough for me to be a part of the conversation.

265

00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,780

And that didn't come early, but it came.

266

00:23:33,490 --> 00:23:35,780

That is a really good point about micromanaging.

267

00:23:35,980 --> 00:23:50,800

I think that is probably one of the biggest faults I hear about commissioning editors when we're, um, working with execs and SPS from production companies saying, oh, it's like, it's like just another grassroots voice, you know, meddling.

268

00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:52,640

And actually it should be a collaboration.

269

00:23:53,420 --> 00:24:03,560

But you know, as you say, you need, everyone has their own strengths and if you've built a team around you and you trust each other, then everyone is good at something that then altogether makes a brilliant product.

270

00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:04,360

Absolutely.

271

00:24:04,670 --> 00:24:11,560

Have you ever been in a situation where someone has kind of referenced or called out the fact that you've never made a program before?

272

00:24:12,420 --> 00:24:12,640

No.

273

00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:12,920

No.

274

00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:13,200

Never.

275

00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,440

I think that kind of call out comes from someone being overbearing.

276

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And I'm not overbearing.

277

00:24:19,380 --> 00:24:21,660

I'm a real champion of people.

278

00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,820

I'm a tell me where it is you want to go, right.

279

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Let's get you there.

280

00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,740

As opposed to, right.

281

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Get on my truck, I'll drive.

282

00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:36,500

You know, because at the end of the day, a commissioning editor is the conduit to purse strings.

283

00:24:36,570 --> 00:24:40,860

They're the conduit to audience, they're the conduit to the relationship, the channel.

284

00:24:41,210 --> 00:24:47,400

They're a conduit to a lot of things, but they're not the one that came in and pitched the idea.

285

00:24:47,460 --> 00:24:49,000

So why would they know it better than you?

286

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They're not the one that made exactly what you've made even in their past, even in their BAFTA winning past.

287

00:24:54,620 --> 00:24:56,640

So why would they lord that over you?

288

00:24:56,700 --> 00:25:12,480

So I think where I don't have the baggage of yeah, been there, done that, do it my way and you'll get somewhere I'm just able to champion and enable and, you know, walk beside people rather than walk in front of them and cast a shadow.

289

00:25:12,980 --> 00:25:13,200

Oh,

290

00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,760

I think I need a Sarah Asante in my life.

291

00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,880

<laugh> not driving my truck, but uh, telling me how to get there.

292

00:25:20,150 --> 00:25:20,440

Yeah,

293

00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:21,320

Absolutely.

294

00:25:21,620 --> 00:25:25,840

No, that's, that's a great attitude and relationship I think to have with the people you're working with.

295

00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,520

I mean, TV should be fun, right?

296

00:25:27,580 --> 00:25:29,400

We can't lose, absolutely lose the fun.

297

00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:31,160

It is really hard work.

298

00:25:31,300 --> 00:25:37,560

And none of us got into this job for and nine to five or did we, because you touched on the work life balance.

299

00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:37,800

Yeah.

300

00:25:37,810 --> 00:25:38,800

Let's talk about that.

301

00:25:39,270 --> 00:25:44,640

Have there been really long hour difficult work lifespans periods of your life?

302

00:25:44,790 --> 00:25:45,080

Yeah,

303

00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:45,760

Yeah, definitely.

304

00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,800

I think I am, don't leave until the job is done as a, um, ethos.

305

00:25:51,380 --> 00:26:04,000

Um, I am stay until the last if I haven't managed my time well and five minutes to midnight is the first time I've gotten to open this file or this letter or this script.

306

00:26:04,180 --> 00:26:04,760

So be it.

307

00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:05,400

That's on me.

308

00:26:05,980 --> 00:26:12,960

Um, I worked with the entertainment team at Channel four when we launched Stand Up To Cancer in the UK for the first time.

309

00:26:13,380 --> 00:26:16,560

We were up at three Bridges studio till two in the morning.

310

00:26:17,380 --> 00:26:24,540

Um, but in terms on keeping your sanity, we're not saving lives.

311

00:26:25,050 --> 00:26:36,620

What we're doing isn't an s on call, you know, if I don't answer this in email, this red hot minute, no one's really going to die.

312

00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:37,380

You know?

313

00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:46,920

So it's just very, just being very pragmatic and being able to kind of check any kind of self-importance or they must hear from me tonight.

314

00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:48,600

Otherwise no one sleeps, <laugh>.

315

00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:49,640

That kind of attitude.

316

00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:52,440

I've worked with people like that and that will never be me.

317

00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:55,960

Um, so I do try and sleep with my phone in a different room.

318

00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:02,640

I will have a quick look at emails while I'm on holiday, just in case anything has cocked up.

319

00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:12,720

But I'd mainly do that just to give my assistant, um, instruction on who to pester instead of me, as opposed to I'm never off, I'm always on.

320

00:27:12,870 --> 00:27:15,320

It's just never, that's never been something that sunk in with it.

321

00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:27,720

And I think it's because age 30, watching people my age absolutely age grey, bags under their eyes because the weight to being a commissioner is heavy.

322

00:27:28,140 --> 00:27:31,360

So I totally get why some people feel like, I can't drop this, I can't let it go.

323

00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,840

I can't, all these plates that are spinning, who else but me?

324

00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:34,360

Who else but me?

325

00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,640

I can see them chasing their tail on that.

326

00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:51,480

And I think because I observed that and thought that can never be me, no job unless I am, you know, around the clock, child surgeon, no job should ever have me running around like this.

327

00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:57,520

And feeling so kind of instrumental and pivotal to, you know, pillars falling down.

328

00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:01,120

So I always, always make sure I manage my time.

329

00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,320

I set a do, I'm a list girl.

330

00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:09,280

I am to-do lists on the phone, to-do lists on post-Its to-do lists on.

331

00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,640

I email myself, todo lists for the following day.

332

00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,360

Whatever I forgot to do today, I pinging it in an email.

333

00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:16,840

So that becomes the first thing I do.

334

00:28:17,100 --> 00:28:17,320

335

00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,760

Sounds like your mom and your family situation have been such an influence mm-hmm.

336

00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,080

<affirmative> on you being like this so incredibly organized.

337

00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:33,240

Yeah, so thoughtful, like you are juggling a lot, like you say, but somehow also not drowning under the pressure of a very big job, but

338

00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,120

I don't wanna make it sound like I'm superhuman.

339

00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:36,600

You know?

340

00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:43,400

I very much take time off 'cause I like to unwind and like to switch off and like to not use my phone for that.

341

00:28:43,940 --> 00:28:45,440

Um, and use my phone for this.

342

00:28:45,720 --> 00:29:01,920

I, you know, when I was transitioning between jobs and feeling a little bit where to now, where to what to do now, um, I had a little bit of internal kind of, you know, um, heartburn about transitioning from one company to another.

343

00:29:02,380 --> 00:29:05,520

You know, I felt very nurtured and looked after at the Beeb.

344

00:29:05,780 --> 00:29:11,800

You know, I walked in there on the sixth month, um, called coordinator contract and left as a commissioner.

345

00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:18,080

I got, I got promoted every 18 months in that 16, in that six year, um, period.

346

00:29:18,580 --> 00:29:23,120

And it didn't feel like I was really climbing the toughest mounting.

347

00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,600

I just knew I was competing against myself, you know?

348

00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:25,880

Mm-hmm.

349

00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,040

<affirmative> and yeah.

350

00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:31,000

And I, and, and, but I was having a lot of, um, family issues.

351

00:29:31,140 --> 00:29:33,720

My mom had terrible, terrible, um, health issues.

352

00:29:34,140 --> 00:29:39,560

We lost her in March this year, but before we lost her, there was a lot of sickness to deal with.

353

00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:46,200

Um, I got myself counseling, um, because I was really toying with the what can I drop?

354

00:29:46,370 --> 00:29:48,200

Stuff needs to be dropped, what can I drop?

355

00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:48,600

You know?

356

00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:54,760

Um, my husband has Asperger's, so he doesn't immediately always know when you're struggling or wants that.

357

00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:55,640

You do have to tell him.

358

00:29:56,100 --> 00:29:58,360

And I am very much in that.

359

00:29:59,180 --> 00:30:00,160

But he lives with me.

360

00:30:00,180 --> 00:30:01,200

He could see I'm struggling.

361

00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,640

He could see I haven't slept well or he could see I've, you know, if I've left the laundry a few days, I must be busy.

362

00:30:06,820 --> 00:30:14,760

If I've, you know, tossed and turned at night and I look terrible in the morning, he must know something to my, and then he, and he doesn't.

363

00:30:15,060 --> 00:30:19,560

So you have to communicate and you have to say, you need to let people know what you need.

364

00:30:20,060 --> 00:30:20,280

Yes.

365

00:30:20,780 --> 00:30:26,800

And you've learned that because of your own personal experience and I imagine you apply that to your workplace as well.

366

00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:27,240

Yeah.

367

00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,600

I make sure that any junior members of our staff, they take, um, ample time off.

368

00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:38,400

If they're meant to be four days a week, I better not see anything from them on the fifth day.

369

00:30:38,780 --> 00:30:43,080

If they're meant to finish at five 30, I don't wanna see anything from you after six.

370

00:30:43,580 --> 00:30:46,520

Um, and things like that because I want to instill that in them young.

371

00:30:46,540 --> 00:30:53,000

You know, we have lots of great mental health, um, tools in our HR intranet.

372

00:30:53,460 --> 00:30:58,200

Um, they're so, so, so, um, um, invested in people at K tv.

373

00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:06,320

So I always encourage people to look for things that might be of health, that it could be mental health, it could be financial health, um, help.

374

00:31:06,460 --> 00:31:11,920

It could be, um, familial things that they don't feel, um, like they can talk about whatever it is.

375

00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:18,560

I just point them in the direction and say that portal is private and there might be something in there for you.

376

00:31:18,780 --> 00:31:26,160

I'm such an advocate, um, for that because, you know, I'd hate to see or have someone in a team near me have burnout.

377

00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:30,360

Um, I know people that I've had burnout, but no one I've worked with immediately.

378

00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,120

And I wouldn't wish that on anyone

379

00:31:34,220 --> 00:31:34,640

Coming

380

00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:34,920

Up.

381

00:31:35,550 --> 00:31:46,200

It's not a coincidence that when you let somebody from underrepresented groups into the decision making suite, they then usher in storytelling from people with underrepresented groups.

382

00:31:54,350 --> 00:31:59,650

The Imposter Club podcast is to help you feel less alone, go and share it with someone you know who'd benefit.

383

00:32:00,750 --> 00:32:01,690

Now, back to the chat.

384

00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:07,770

If there was someone listening, um, who's finding themselves overwhelmed.

385

00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:08,290

Yeah.

386

00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,490

What would you recommend that they do?

387

00:32:10,970 --> 00:32:15,010

I think if you are overwhelmed, the first thing to do is talk about it.

388

00:32:15,510 --> 00:32:26,330

Get it out of your head and down on some paper, down in an email, down over a cup of tea with somebody that's a good listener.

389

00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:35,810

You don't want somebody that's a, I'm not quite sure what you're talking about, because all they'll do is say, oh, it'll be fine.

390

00:32:36,590 --> 00:32:37,650

You just need a bit of sleep.

391

00:32:37,650 --> 00:32:38,730

You're probably just tired.

392

00:32:39,420 --> 00:32:48,720

You're probably just this, you're probably just anyone in your life that's sort of well-meaning and will give you a gloss over response, probably don't go to them.

393

00:32:49,210 --> 00:33:02,400

Maybe go to a colleague, maybe go to someone who's been in your position, maybe an ex-colleague, someone that you used to work with that you remember used to sort of, you know, um, run around like a headless chicken, but now seems quite chill.

394

00:33:02,690 --> 00:33:05,640

Maybe someone who's left the industry in order to get chill.

395

00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,800

I think talking about it, seeking mental health assistance.

396

00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:19,840

I know within broadcasters and within networks, they have a lot of that, but for freelancers, you know, it might be an n h s and therefore waiting list.

397

00:33:19,980 --> 00:33:25,000

It might be a go private and therefore it costs, um, um, more than you think.

398

00:33:25,100 --> 00:33:33,340

But creating circles, gathering other heads around a problem can be really, really useful.

399

00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,300

So I think sharing, not internalizing, not taking it personally.

400

00:33:38,300 --> 00:33:46,960

There's a lot of people who I, I hear phrasing things in a way of, it's probably 'cause I'm not good enough.

401

00:33:47,030 --> 00:33:48,240

That is heartbreaking.

402

00:33:49,020 --> 00:33:52,040

It cannot, cannot take hold the internalizing.

403

00:33:52,660 --> 00:33:59,720

Please, please, please, if you can stop, or if you can seek help on how to stop that, because that is so unhelpful.

404

00:33:59,980 --> 00:34:04,680

And it's, it's the depression of the thing and it's the negativity trying to take a hold.

405

00:34:05,020 --> 00:34:05,240

Yes.

406

00:34:05,340 --> 00:34:08,040

And more than anything, you know, but try and share it.

407

00:34:08,219 --> 00:34:09,719

Try and share it in whatever way you can.

408

00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:10,199

409

00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:13,080

Couldn't agree more talking is, is key.

410

00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:14,639

Can we talk about representation?

411

00:34:14,790 --> 00:34:20,960

Because as I said in the intro, you were the first ever black female commissioning editor at the B B C mm-hmm.

412

00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:26,000

<affirmative>.

413

00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,400

And that was only, what, five, six years ago?

414

00:34:23,469 --> 00:34:23,760

Yeah,

415

00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:25,000

2018 mm-hmm.

416

00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:30,040

<affirmative>.

417

00:34:25,420 --> 00:34:27,480

So we are coming a long way.

418

00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:34,360

Lots of really positive, um, things are happening, um, in teams.

419

00:34:34,460 --> 00:34:35,600

You know, I'm, I'm part of it.

420

00:34:35,630 --> 00:34:37,320

It's, you know, yes, it's an exciting place to be.

421

00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:43,639

There's big changes happening, but how did you feel walking into workplaces, into meetings?

422

00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:46,360

Just constantly being the only black person in the room.

423

00:34:47,580 --> 00:34:53,080

I'm kind of a take things for what they are, not what you'd like them to be person.

424

00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:57,760

I'm a take people for who they are and not who you want them to be person.

425

00:34:58,460 --> 00:35:07,960

So walking into the industry in 2006 as an assistant, I was treated like an assistant and I was welcome like an assistant.

426

00:35:08,300 --> 00:35:11,640

And people understood my presence as the assistant.

427

00:35:12,350 --> 00:35:25,680

It's when I became the decision maker and I was walking into those spaces and it was confused looks and the almost coffee order until they clocked the name badge and then it, oh no, <laugh> reeling it back.

428

00:35:26,220 --> 00:35:28,000

You know, I noticed all of that.

429

00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:37,640

Um, and I just think this industry, it spends so much time talking about what it wants instead of enacting what, what it wants.

430

00:35:38,100 --> 00:35:45,240

We need to crack on and give people the chance to step in the room, not a chance, because they're not a risk.

431

00:35:45,710 --> 00:35:55,680

Just the chance to step into the room, step into those roles, support them in whatever way they need support, but just stop with the hand ringing.

432

00:35:56,190 --> 00:36:08,240

Stop with the, we've never done this before, so I don't see how we can do this attitude and let people, because it's not a coincidence that as soon as I was in a decision making role, I commissioned Chinese Burn.

433

00:36:08,660 --> 00:36:15,240

It didn't turn into a series, but it's the first or female or Chinese sitcom in British TV history I've commissioned Perfect.

434

00:36:16,290 --> 00:36:23,860

It's a sitcom that has three disabled leads, three wheelchair using leads and written by a writer with cerebral palsy.

435

00:36:24,170 --> 00:36:35,100

It's not a coincidence that when you let somebody from underrepresented groups into the decision-making suite, they then usher in storytelling from people with underrepresented groups.

436

00:36:35,100 --> 00:36:39,140

Because we know what it's like to look left, look right, and notice everyone who's missing.

437

00:36:39,410 --> 00:36:42,780

There's a lot of people that have been doing that their whole careers and haven't noticed.

438

00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,980

And that's an issue, you know, that I'll allow as the unconscious bit.

439

00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:52,540

But the rest of the time you've gotta be conscious that everyone in the meeting room nodded.

440

00:36:52,540 --> 00:36:59,900

When you nodded read that same guardian thing you read, watched that, you know, it's sort of echo chambery and we've gotta get out of that.

441

00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:00,980

Oh man, we do.

442

00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,900

And that is, that is the everything for me, what you just said.

443

00:37:03,900 --> 00:37:10,220

That is the whole point of having diverse, whatever you call that, you know, whatever your definition of that word is.

444

00:37:10,290 --> 00:37:10,580

Okay.

445

00:37:10,580 --> 00:37:12,180

Completely diverse teams.

446

00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:12,940

Mm-hmm.

447

00:37:12,980 --> 00:37:17,980

<affirmative>.

448

00:37:13,020 --> 00:37:26,700

Because how boring would telly be if absolutely everybody was in one room, looked the same, had went to the same uni, um, had the same upbringing, had the same wives and girlfriends and boyfriends and husbands, and then made stuff for the telly?

449

00:37:26,700 --> 00:37:26,940

Yeah.

450

00:37:26,940 --> 00:37:29,300

It would be dull, dull, dull.

451

00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,660

And you know, it's absolutely vital.

452

00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:36,140

And you know, you are a huge part of making amazing, funny, excellent telly.

453

00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:41,220

Um, I've heard that there's a third member of your relationship, Sarah <laugh>

454

00:37:42,180 --> 00:37:47,180

<laugh>.

455

00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:43,940

Who is

456

00:37:43,940 --> 00:37:44,020

That?

457

00:37:44,020 --> 00:37:45,100

Or rather what is that?

458

00:37:45,370 --> 00:37:45,660

That

459

00:37:45,870 --> 00:37:54,300

Third member of my relationship, the thing that makes me a throuple is my trusty iPad.

460

00:37:55,110 --> 00:37:57,220

She's not in the room with me at the moment, which is rare.

461

00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:07,720

But basically I think you'll be surprised at how many people want to enter our industry and don't watch a lot of things.

462

00:38:08,300 --> 00:38:16,440

You'll be surprised at how many people are in our industry and don't watch everything they watch whatever zeitgeists say, oh, everyone's talking about traces quick.

463

00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:17,360

I better watch traces.

464

00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:18,320

Everyone's talking about succession.

465

00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:18,920

Let me get on it.

466

00:38:19,060 --> 00:38:22,720

But ultimately aren't tele addicts.

467

00:38:23,220 --> 00:38:30,680

And I think maybe it's because scripted has to go through so many fine filters in order to ring true.

468

00:38:31,420 --> 00:38:42,280

I'd feel very remiss if I wasn't aware of all the ways it's similar to or differentiates itself from something that's already happened or already been out there.

469

00:38:42,450 --> 00:38:49,400

There might be a sprinkling of a character from something bigger that we enjoyed, and we'd love to see more of that type of character.

470

00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:50,960

And your thing features that person.

471

00:38:51,340 --> 00:38:53,520

So even though someone could go, isn't that similar?

472

00:38:54,460 --> 00:38:56,440

The way you've done it is different enough.

473

00:38:56,500 --> 00:39:01,280

And the only way you know that is by watching everything and reading everything.

474

00:39:01,420 --> 00:39:10,000

So yeah, the iPad, it comes to with me in the bathroom, in the kitchen on holidays, down the roads when I go pop out to get some stuff from the shop.

475

00:39:10,180 --> 00:39:13,280

And, you know, it keeps me company, but it also keeps me informed.

476

00:39:13,300 --> 00:39:14,560

It keeps me top of my game.

477

00:39:14,980 --> 00:39:18,120

It, it means that my references are always on point.

478

00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:24,200

I feel very satisfied when I have development meetings and people are jotting down the three or four, um, TV shows.

479

00:39:24,270 --> 00:39:29,760

I've told them their thing is similar to, or to make sure their thing doesn't become too similar to because they haven't seen it.

480

00:39:30,270 --> 00:39:30,560

Yeah.

481

00:39:30,980 --> 00:39:33,440

And, and that is it, that's in your armory as well, isn't it?

482

00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,120

About you feeling in the know mm-hmm.

483

00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:41,160

<affirmative>.

484

00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,360

And actually that's been a common theme throughout our conversation here.

485

00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:38,640

Mm-hmm.

486

00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:45,480

<affirmative> has been, yeah, you had a kind of different career before you came in, but then you made sure you had all of the ingredients close at hand.

487

00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:46,640

You kept on top of them all.

488

00:39:46,780 --> 00:39:49,160

You called, you know, things out.

489

00:39:49,180 --> 00:40:00,600

You found your confidence by watching and joining dots and you know, just building your own personal development, your own sort of CV along the way.

490

00:40:00,700 --> 00:40:06,920

But also, I just think, honestly, you really inspire me because you've don't seem to have ever doubted yourself.

491

00:40:07,180 --> 00:40:09,440

So in a, in a, I mean, maybe you have, am I wrong?

492

00:40:10,140 --> 00:40:15,960

No, I've never doubted myself, but I've definitely recognized when I dunno a ton about a thing and I've gone off and made sure I did.

493

00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:21,620

So I sent myself homework based on things I gleaned from, uh, conversations.

494

00:40:21,780 --> 00:40:29,940

I had a, a, a teacher at college who used to say he was a law teacher, but he used to say, every one of you go and buy the evening standard.

495

00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,540

Get yourself a highlighter, highlight every single word you don't understand, and go and look it up.

496

00:40:35,950 --> 00:40:39,100

Don't go through conversations not knowing what people are talking to.

497

00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:44,420

So imagine 10 years later, I land in an industry that's so jargon heavy.

498

00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:46,140

That's what I do.

499

00:40:46,220 --> 00:40:49,580

I go off and with my highlighter and find out what the hell everyone's talking about.

500

00:40:50,510 --> 00:40:55,080

That is awesome that you remember a teacher who said that, that's really stuck with you.

501

00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:55,560

Yeah.

502

00:40:55,660 --> 00:40:56,080

Oh yeah.

503

00:40:56,180 --> 00:41:00,400

I'm gonna get a highlighter pen out for my next, uh, meeting where people are using too much corporate stuff.

504

00:41:00,540 --> 00:41:02,600

I'm never, I'm never afraid to ask a silly question.

505

00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:03,440

Yeah, exactly.

506

00:41:03,450 --> 00:41:05,160

Never be afraid to ask a question.

507

00:41:05,540 --> 00:41:05,760

No.

508

00:41:06,110 --> 00:41:06,400

Okay.

509

00:41:06,420 --> 00:41:09,680

And then, um, what I'd like to ask, I'd be interested to see what you say here.

510

00:41:09,790 --> 00:41:17,520

What would you say to the younger Sarah at the beginning of your career if you knew then what you know now?

511

00:41:18,340 --> 00:41:19,000

Oh God.

512

00:41:19,220 --> 00:41:23,620

Um, I think for younger me,

513

00:41:25,630 --> 00:41:35,840

I think being gregarious and curious as an innate character trait means that you are the puppy that's chasing the balloons in the park.

514

00:41:36,300 --> 00:41:38,080

You are chasing bubbles in the park.

515

00:41:38,650 --> 00:41:51,420

Focus, figure out early what path you'd like to take, because again, I'm not just a rare bird who has become a commissioner through the ranks of broadcasters.

516

00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:59,180

I'm also a rare bird who's hopped from factual to specialist factual to enter to factual entertainment, to scripted.

517

00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:03,180

Um, and I'm not just doing scripted comedy anymore for UK tv.

518

00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,220

I'm doing drama and comedy, so I'm fully scripted.

519

00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:11,620

So making those facts to fiction leaps isn't usual in our industry either.

520

00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:14,540

Um, they've stood me in good stead, I've made it work.

521

00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:27,540

But I think if I'd honed in on my one True Love, which is scripted, um, drama, storytelling, comedy, um, character storytelling, I would've been able to have done more by now.

522

00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:36,500

So I think focus young lady, um, stop being interested slash nosy about everything and pick a lane.

523

00:42:37,380 --> 00:42:39,820

<laugh> <laugh>, great answer.

524

00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,900

Or that I love all of your lanes, <laugh>, they're amazing.

525

00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,700

All of the lanes has made this road that you are driving on.

526

00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:47,180

To be

527

00:42:47,180 --> 00:42:48,940

Fair, I have arrived at a road.

528

00:42:48,970 --> 00:42:49,260

Yeah,

529

00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:49,740

Yeah, yeah.

530

00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:50,820

Oh, thank you.

531

00:42:50,820 --> 00:42:53,660

Sarah I have loved hearing about how you've got to here.

532

00:42:53,710 --> 00:42:54,140

Thank you.

533

00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:56,460

And beyond it sounds as well, like you're constant.

534

00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,500

You, you are like a sponge absorbing new things and going new places.

535

00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:03,740

Always keeping yourself on trend and what's, you know, what's going where.

536

00:43:03,940 --> 00:43:05,900

I mean, what would you like to be doing in 10 years time?

537

00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:06,820

You thought about that?

538

00:43:07,090 --> 00:43:07,380

Well,

539

00:43:07,380 --> 00:43:07,940

That's the thing.

540

00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:17,100

As a lover of learning, I always, I don't see everything that I dunno, or every area that I'm, I'm familiar with as some daunting, you must not go here.

541

00:43:17,300 --> 00:43:19,300

I see it as a wouldn't it be great if I cracked this?

542

00:43:19,300 --> 00:43:22,060

Wouldn't it be great if I knew more about this on the other side?

543

00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:24,780

So I think there's no way for me to know.

544

00:43:25,300 --> 00:43:28,300

I think the plan would be, I'd love to pivot to teaching.

545

00:43:28,980 --> 00:43:32,940

I think, um, early intervention with young people is really important to me.

546

00:43:33,060 --> 00:43:39,900

I ran a couple of events at the B B C, um, which encouraged, um, people from disadvantaged backgrounds.

547

00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:52,060

Um, I specifically went to the bottom of the Ofsted Register and invited the 15 bottom schools in to talk to people of color at the B B C who had non-traditional roles.

548

00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:57,580

So all of these kids were sort of, I'll tell you, that's hosting, that's being a host or being an actor, isn't it?

549

00:43:57,580 --> 00:43:58,340

And I was like, no, no, no.

550

00:43:58,340 --> 00:44:05,980

There's a black girl in legal, there's a black guy in finance, there's this working class, um, white guy Charlie Slough who, um, works in, um, radio.

551

00:44:06,050 --> 00:44:10,420

There's this, this like, we all are here, but we're in jeans and converse.

552

00:44:10,420 --> 00:44:12,220

Guys, you don't have to wear a suit and go to the city.

553

00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,540

Why don't you try for a job in telly?

554

00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:25,260

And you can see their little eyes, the light bulbs are going off like, oh, you allowed to look like you and sound like us and be from Brook Grove and we're converse and get a job that pays.

555

00:44:25,490 --> 00:44:26,300

Okay, what?

556

00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:27,340

So isn't that

557

00:44:27,490 --> 00:44:29,420

Fantastic to open in their eyes like that,

558

00:44:29,470 --> 00:44:29,900

Isn't it?

559

00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:36,750

You know, to be a media lawyer, guys, there'd be, and you know, because black and brown parents, they always want you to be a doctor lawyer or a failure.

560

00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,710

Those are your sort of choices in life.

561

00:44:38,990 --> 00:44:43,990

<laugh>.

562

00:44:39,250 --> 00:44:41,910

So you could be a media lawyer.

563

00:44:42,210 --> 00:44:47,270

So you get the double tick of here, mom, I'm a lawyer, but actually I'm a lawyer that gets to go to screenings.

564

00:44:47,570 --> 00:44:47,830

You know?

565

00:44:47,860 --> 00:44:48,350

Exactly.

566

00:44:48,350 --> 00:44:48,830

That's cute.

567

00:44:48,900 --> 00:44:51,230

I've always said that to people in finance and accounts.

568

00:44:51,230 --> 00:44:57,270

It's like, I really resent it when someone at a, like a dinner or an event goes to me, oh, I'm just an accountant.

569

00:44:57,370 --> 00:44:57,590

Mm.

570

00:44:57,690 --> 00:44:58,110

Bit boring.

571

00:44:58,110 --> 00:44:58,310

Yeah.

572

00:44:58,410 --> 00:45:00,590

I'm like, you don't, firstly don't say it like that.

573

00:45:00,860 --> 00:45:01,350

It's awesome.

574

00:45:01,650 --> 00:45:04,150

But secondly, if you wanna be a bit cooler yeah.

575

00:45:04,150 --> 00:45:04,270

You

576

00:45:04,270 --> 00:45:06,550

Could industry in a different industry.

577

00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:07,430

Absolutely.

578

00:45:07,890 --> 00:45:12,430

So yeah, I think a tutor of some sort, a lecturer of some sort would be really great.

579

00:45:12,610 --> 00:45:22,110

I'd love a, you know, to leave TV in my early fifties and then have a 20 year career molding the next generation as my second act.

580

00:45:22,290 --> 00:45:22,910

That'd be cute.

581

00:45:23,220 --> 00:45:23,710

Amazing.

582

00:45:23,940 --> 00:45:30,390

Well, Dorothy Byrne, who's also in this series of imposter club I love to is, um, president of Murray Edwards College at Cambridge.

583

00:45:30,390 --> 00:45:30,750

There you

584

00:45:30,750 --> 00:45:30,870

Go.

585

00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:31,870

There you go There.

586

00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:32,990

She's an

587

00:45:33,110 --> 00:45:34,270

Absolute inspiration to me.

588

00:45:34,420 --> 00:45:39,750

That was one of the teams I worked in in 2006 when I was an AEs, when I was an assistant.

589

00:45:39,780 --> 00:45:40,070

Yeah.

590

00:45:40,340 --> 00:45:40,830

Amazing.

591

00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:41,830

She's incredible.

592

00:45:42,100 --> 00:45:45,030

Look, Sarah, thank you so much again for coming onto the Impostor Club.

593

00:45:45,270 --> 00:45:47,830

I hope you thank you, um, enjoyed talking it all through <laugh>.

594

00:45:47,830 --> 00:45:48,070

Yeah,

595

00:45:48,590 --> 00:45:48,870

Absolutely.

596

00:45:49,310 --> 00:45:49,590

Absolutely.

597

00:45:49,690 --> 00:45:54,790

And yeah, I think I'm definitely in the imposter club because I know it's real and I know it affects people.

598

00:45:55,410 --> 00:46:01,390

Um, but I hope that I'm an example of how you can really see it as water of a duck's back.

599

00:46:01,390 --> 00:46:02,310

Don't let it stick to you.

600

00:46:02,310 --> 00:46:03,430

Don't let they grab a hold.

601

00:46:03,970 --> 00:46:07,790

You know, find a way to tell your story through those feelings.

602

00:46:10,170 --> 00:46:14,110

That's it for this episode of The Imposter Club, brought to you by talented people.

603

00:46:14,730 --> 00:46:21,270

I'm Kimberly Godbolt and it has been lovely to hang out with you while you commute slash gym slash dog walk or whatever you're doing.

604

00:46:22,090 --> 00:46:28,830

If this has struck a chord, please go ahead and share it with your friends in that closed WhatsApp group, I'm not in or on your social networks.

605

00:46:29,170 --> 00:46:36,310

Our aim is to reach as many fellow imposters as we can to share love and learnings and create a sense of belonging.

606

00:46:36,850 --> 00:46:41,350

And if you haven't already, follow or subscribe to the pod so you don't miss an episode drop.

607

00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:51,630

Thank you to talented people, produced and hosted by me, Kimberly Godbolt, exec producer Rosie Turner, editor Ben Mullins.

608

00:46:52,090 --> 00:46:52,590

See you later.

Why I didn't want to be a commissioner - UKTV's Sarah Asante reveals her secrets to work/life balance and self-belief

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